Join SHRM President and CEO, Johnny C. Taylor, Jr., for some of the best advice on strengthening your power skills and how to use them to your advantage in the workplace. Plus, stay tuned for his BEST career advice on this episode of Career Compass.
Join SHRM President and CEO, Johnny C. Taylor, Jr., for some of the best advice on strengthening your power skills and how to use them to your advantage in the workplace. Plus, stay tuned for his BEST career advice on this episode of Career Compass.
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Aly Sharp:
Hello, welcome to Career Compass, a podcast from SHRM. I'm going to be your host today, Aly Sharpe. Career Compass covers pertinent topics in HR that are relevant to students and emerging professionals. Each episode, we're joined by an industry expert to share their knowledge and advice with you. Today we're welcoming none other than Johnny C. Taylor Jr., president and chief executive officer of SHRM, recently named one of the 300 most influential executives in corporate America by Savoy Magazine. Mr. Taylor's career spans more than 20 years as a lawyer, and an executive, serving at AIC, Paramount Pictures, Blockbuster Entertainment Group, and the Thurgood Marshall College Fund, among with many other organizations. He's a member of the United Way Worldwide Board of Trustees, and serves on the corporate boards of XPO Logistics, Flores & Associates, and Guild Education. He previously served on the White House American Workforce Policy Advisory Board, and as chairman of the President's Advisory Board on Historically Black Colleges and Universities. Mr. Taylor writes a weekly column in USA Today, and is a fellow of the National Academy of Human Resources, and a SHRM senior certified professional Welcome, Johnny, to Career Compass.
Johnny C. Taylor, Jr.:
So good to be here. CP, when people are listening to you, when you listen to your own resume, you're like, "Gosh, this guy couldn't keep a job." That's what it really sounds like.
Aly Sharp:
No.
Johnny C. Taylor, Jr.:
So, I'm the perfect person to give you Career Compass advice.
Aly Sharp:
Well, we're going to jump in, and start talking about power skills, and how to strengthen them. So, I know you've been a really big proponent on transitioning the terminology from soft skills, to power skills. Would you mind briefly explaining what power skills are, and your rationale behind that change?
Johnny C. Taylor, Jr.:
Yeah, so starting with the rationale side, soft was the way we described things that weren't hard, like the technical, "Do I have the skills to do the job?" Years of experience, educational preparation. What we've found over time in human resources, and generally in leadership, is those are actually the easier of the skills to solve for, the technical competencies, because you can train someone to do these things, and you buy books, and you go online, and you can actually give, and develop people's skills. What's harder, and much, much harder are these skills related to empathy, collaboration, working in teams, how to persuade people, how to disagree without being disagreeable. The list goes on, and on, and on, and what we found is those are pretty darn difficult, and I don't think it's even appropriate. Words matter, and characterizing them as soft suggests that they're not serious, and more importantly, that they're not difficult. So, that was the logic and the rationale for going into that.
Now, what are those things, and how do we think about those? We have all worked with people who are technically very, very good. They have the competencies, top of their class, and they did really well. We know that person that no one wants to work with. We know that person who actually slows the team down because they are incorrigible. Like if it's not their idea, then it's a bad idea. We know people who can't hear other people's perspective. They say diversity is important to them, but when it's a diversity of perspective, they can't adjust. And so, those are the people who derail projects. They slow them down, no matter how technically talented they are.
So that's why we took it upon ourselves, we've been talking to CHROs all over the country, and indeed all over the world about what are the new generation missing most? Now, we all are missing something, and they say, "Listen, they're really talented. They are tech-savvy, they're digital natives. They know the stuff that we need for the future. The struggle is these formerly soft skills, and now power skills. We need to figure out how to develop them in talent." So SHRM, responsible for ensuring that our members ultimately deliver the talent that their organizations need, we said, "We've got to focus on how to help our new generational talent come in, work on these now power skills."
Aly Sharp:
So, if you had to rank the top three power skills that college students and emerging professionals should focus on developing, which would you choose?
Johnny C. Taylor, Jr.:
Wow. So, I'm going to do three, but I don't know that they're necessarily in order, because they're so close, they're like-
Aly Sharp:
That's totally fine.
Johnny C. Taylor, Jr.:
Number one is listening. Number 1.1 is very much listening, and not just hearing because you can hear, unless you are hearing impaired one can hear. But listening, or what I term extreme listening, listening to understand, not to respond, not for debates, but just really try to understand, that's number one. Because frankly, we hold, all of us, and especially younger generations, you have strong opinions about what you think, and how... And I remember being 22, that was 10 years ago, that's what I'm going to say. That's my story. But I remember having it all figured out. I literally had it figured out, and it was really hard for me to listen, and truly in the sense of listening that I'm talking about. So that's number one.
Number two is this notion of being able to work with others. We generationally, and it didn't just start with the millennial generation, and the generation Z, generationally, we, for a long time in our culture, have taught people to be focused on themselves. The I. We say there's no I in team, but we oftentimes focus very individualistic in our approach, and what we know, especially in business is, individuals can't really solve systemic, complicated, complex, messy issues anymore. It's hard to innovate as an individual.
So, that skill, power skill of being able to work with others is something that's lost, because we're not as focused. I can tell you, I saw the shift, even with my own generation. Everything was focused on the I. So, no surprise now, everyone is focused on themselves. They don't really care about others, which has led to all sorts of issues, like you know our big campaign on incivility, or our campaigns on civility, is that people don't really care how others feel about anything, as long as they themselves feel good. So that's the second thing is just focus on teamwork.
Related to it is, I think a really strong power skill these days, is around empathy, right? It is really, really hard to be empathetic, especially if you're focused on self. But this focus that when you think about what would help us do better as an organization here at SHRM, or wherever one works, is this idea that you can empathize with others, that that's not to be confused or conflated with sympathizing. Sympathy is important as well, but I'm focused on the power skill of being empathetic. And that means I try to understand how when I say what I do, how I operate might make you feel, how is it perceived by Aly?
And the more you do that, the more effective of a business professional, and ultimately a business leader you can become, because it comes from a place of, I know you're only going to be your best if you think I see you, I hear you, I respect you, I value you, and empathy is the way to do it. So, if I... Again, really ranking them, empathy, probably the more I talk about it is probably number one, but you can't even get to empathy if you don't listen. So, listening, being a more empathetic leader, and then of course committing yourself to working on teams to innovate and ideate.
Aly Sharp:
Yeah. I mean, we had a meeting, a company-wide meeting this morning, and you were talking about how important collaboration is for all of us.
Johnny C. Taylor, Jr.:
That's right.
Aly Sharp:
We don't do as well collaborating if we're not all together.
Johnny C. Taylor, Jr.:
That's right.
Aly Sharp:
I love that there's the pull through there.
Johnny C. Taylor, Jr.:
Consistency in the message.
Aly Sharp:
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, kind of on the same tone is how can job seekers effectively demonstrate their power skills to potential employers?
Johnny C. Taylor, Jr.:
Yeah. So, it starts in that interview, that first one, listening. I just had lunch, as coincidence would have it, with a father of a son who's interviewing, and he was asking me, "Why isn't the kid getting the jobs? He's got great grades, so technically quite good, good school, et cetera." And as I listened to the father describing his son's... The way his son shows up in his personal life, as well as during these interviews, I was able to offer up some advice to him. And I said, "Your son doesn't listen. He goes in and he spends a disproportionate amount of time telling the person, selling himself during the interview, and not really trying to take in what's the culture here? What's the person who's interviewing me? What's important to them? Not what's important to me, or what I think is important to them, to actually listen."
So how do you do it during an interview is be very mindful during the interview. It's exploratory. You are trying to hear. That doesn't mean you sit there and say nothing, but you're engaging. So, that's number one. This idea, that's how you practically do it, get in your head, "When I'm going to go to an interview is yes, they want to know about me and I'm going to share that, but I also really do have to listen." And so that's number one.
Secondly, and that other power skill that I mentioned around teamwork. When you're interviewing, or pursuing opportunities, because this is so important, and business leaders are looking for it, describe when you've done it. Even if they don't ask the question, find a way to weave into the answers that they have. "So, tell me about your college experience." "Well, let me tell you, I had this opportunity to lead my fraternity or my sorority or the 4H Club." I mean name it, whatever organization you're associated with, student government.
People, you can't just ask me, "Am I a leader?" What you should do is describe to people situations where they will say, "Ah, you led." So, think of in advance of your interviews, think of opportunities where you can tell stories. I'm a storyteller, and I think in a positive way, that doesn't mean I lie, but a storyteller. And if during the interview you can show people, they leave that interview understanding, "This is a leader when they were in high school, when they were in college within their family, their community," you don't have to then tell them you're a leader. They're going to walk away saying, "That person has leadership skills," because they know how to work within teams. And you may say, "Well, leadership and team?" Well, right. If you're the only person, you really don't need to be a leader, because it's only you. One is not a leader if they're not followers. And we love people who voluntarily follow you.
And then that final one around empathy. There's nothing more compelling to me during an interview, when someone finds a way to tell me a story about how they have utilized empathy in their lives, ideally in a professional context, like explain to me how you were working with someone who had a different set of experiences, lived experiences, and how you incorporated that into working with them in such a way that it helped the business, but it also made them feel fulfilled at work. When you do that, that can't help... Now it doesn't have to be overly syrupy, and I'm not saying I went out and cut someone's yard for two weeks, because no, that's not even appropriate in the business context. But if you want a specific... Fine, think back through your life and say, "What are examples where I have drawn on my empathy?" Because you're saying to the hiring manager, "I can bring that to work. It may need to be developed, but I'm already predisposed to operate as an empathetic professional."
Aly Sharp:
That's amazing. And I think you've mentioned, a of people don't think in that context, where you can be understanding, and hear someone when they say they're going through something, but to be empathetic is to modify maybe the responsibilities that that person has while they're going through whatever challenge. So, I think that's really important to raise. And we touched on this digital generation. It's technically my own, so I have to ask, as the workplace continues to evolve and integrate AI, what role do you see power skills playing in the future of work?
Johnny C. Taylor, Jr.:
Well, as we pull through this thread of empathy, for the first time in our history as we know it, we now have six generations in the workplace at once. And the last generation, generation alpha, they were generally understood to be born in 2010, which means they're 14 now. And many of them worked their first summer job this summer, because under federal labor law, you can actually work. You can get a work permit around this country to do certain jobs at 14. So, we actually have 14-year-olds in the workplace, and we have 74, 84-year-olds in the workplace. So there's this span, and you have to draw very heavily on empathy. Your generation, in particular, generation, I'm assuming you're a Zer.
Aly Sharp:
I'm a Z, yeah.
Johnny C. Taylor, Jr.:
Right? Because you actually have to figure out how to manage all of these as well, even if you're not in a management role. How do I work with the person who is generationally like my grandparents, or like my parents? And how at the same time when I see this new worker coming into the workplace, how do I work with them? Because they actually... Every generation has some distinct differences. Now what's funny, I understand, and as you get older, you begin to see we all sort of morph into one as you get older. It's an interesting cycle. But we all start out saying, "Gosh, look at those people." We laugh at our grandparents, and our parents, and we quote them, and make fun, and mock what they say, because that's generational. And then you one day will be saying it.
I was talking to a group the other day about millennials. We beat up on millennials forever. It was like a joke, right? "Oh, another millennial." And then all of a sudden the millennial hit 40, 40 years old. Many of the millennials are now 40 years and older, and now they're mocking generation Z, you know, "Those generations Z, and they don't like [inaudible 00:14:17]."
So this idea, it's a long answer to the question that you ask, which is that when you really think about your digital natives, and therefore you are working with people who are not digital natives, empathy allows you, for example, to help someone who does not know the latest technology, for you to help bring them along, and understand they're not resisting because they're resisting, they're resisting because it's foreign to them, and people struggle with things that are different. So drawing on that to bring your older co-workers with you on the journey.
And you actually... We called it reverse mentoring. A lot of times older people are mentoring young people. Well, young people can mentor older people when it comes to the latest in new technologies. When you go down the market, or younger in the workforce, it's really responsible for the generations that are coming behind you, for example, to help them learn to be more responsible with the technology that they're using. We know the downsides of social media to people's mental wellbeing, and how it manifests itself in their physical wellbeing. So, at the same time, you sort of can use that to help all of the generations be their best selves. And you all are uniquely positioned, because many of the millennials, they came to the computer era, but not the way... The social media, you were born, literally doing this, right? And you've got to help us. You've got to help the younger generations be responsible with it, and you've got to teach the older generations how to adopt, and embrace it, and not see it as a threat. That's empathy at work, and that's leadership.
Aly Sharp:
I love that. And as you were saying that, I was thinking back, I think I was maybe seven at the time, and I had to teach my grandpa how to open up a new tab in his browser. I was like, "I don't even know how I know this."
Johnny C. Taylor, Jr.:
But think about that. You're the seven-year-old teaching your grandfather, and that will continue for a while, until you become the old person, which won't be that long. I tell you, time flies really fast, but it really is fascinating. I have a fourteen-year-old daughter, as you know. No doubt. No, and it's a lot going on. I remind her every day, "You have to teach daddy some things. Daddy's got to teach you some things, and we will peacefully coexist, or not."
Aly Sharp:
Mutually beneficial.
Johnny C. Taylor, Jr.:
I love that phrase, actually, it's one of my favorite terms [inaudible 00:16:31].
Aly Sharp:
Yeah. So I cannot miss this opportunity as we close out this episode to ask you what many of our listeners are probably dying to know, and that is, what are your top pieces of advice for students who are getting ready to enter, or re-enter the workforce?
Johnny C. Taylor, Jr.:
Wow, I usually speak in threes, but I'm going to try to do two this time, because I have two really strong... At the risk of repeating myself. I won't. I'll pick two others. One, be humble. That is my number one piece of advice I would give to you. Listen, I was once the hot shot, newly minted undergrad, masters, JD, top of my class, big job. And I walked into the law firm, and I knew it all. And the fact of the matter is I didn't, and it took me a couple of mistakes to realize that there were a lot of people who were really smart, and there were people who were smarter than I was, and with experience, were better than I could ever hope to be, or I aspired to be. I literally would encourage every person, come in, yes, you're talented and you should be proud of yourself and what you've accomplished and what you've overcome, because we all have overcome obstacles in our lives to be where we are. But humility, a strong dose of humility will go a long way.
I'm reminded earlier in my career here I was, as I said, I'm 23 years old. I've finished my bachelor's, my master's, my JD, I'm in a law firm, and one of my clients asked me to grab their bags essentially. And for a second I thought to myself, "Someone else grabs bags, not me." And that, just the fact that that was in my mind, I caught myself, and I didn't say it because I wasn't stupid, because I might've found myself unemployed. You better grab the bags, and grab three of them. Right?
But for a second... I actually talk to myself a lot. Good news is I generally don't answer, but I can remember being in that moment, realizing, "You've got to humble yourself. You're talented, but there are a lot of talented people. You're here because of some combination of God, fate, luck, whatever it is, however, and your hard work. But there are a lot of people who work hard who won't be in this law firm and get this opportunity, so you've got to humble yourself." That's number one. And again, I don't say that in any way to suggest that any person here should not recognize that they've put in a lot of effort to enjoy the success that they have. While at the same time, I think you've got to make sure that you cover that with a little bit of humility.
Secondly, and most importantly, and this is, I shouldn't say most, it's as important, this idea that you all, more than any other generation in history, are going to have to commit to lifelong learning. We could literally go to college and kind of get through 30 years just modifying a little bit about what we learned in college. Many of the jobs that you were trained to do, and education that you received will largely not be relevant five years from now. It just won't be. So, you can't rely on going to college, taking that degree, and pulling it through toward whatever your eventual retirement is. You're going to have a whole bunch of different jobs. Many of the jobs that you do will go away in your lifetime, and you'll have to retool, and re-educate yourself.
So, we've forever as a country, and I think globally, have talked about lifelong learning, but you have actually got to commit to lifelong learning, and not just depend upon your employer to engage in lifelong learning. You are going to have to constantly update, re-skill, cross-skill yourself, so that you're not left behind. Because remember, there'll be some young person who's coming out of school newly minted, you're 25 now, there's another 25-year-old, four or five years behind you, and that person's going to know all of the newest computer languages, and tools, and blah, blah, blah. And if you aren't retooling, going to find yourself very quickly outdated. So, that's those two things. Humility, and then a commitment to lifelong learning that you drive. You don't wait for an employer to tell you what you need to do. You actually drive your own education going forward.
Aly Sharp:
And I just want to plug some of SHRM's educational opportunities. I know you're not going to do it, so I will take it on. When I started here, I was 22, and as soon as I heard about the people manager qualification, I was like, "Yep, I'm going to do that." Finished it in my first year. I then was like, "I think I could use a master's." So, I did that. The listeners, I don't know if anyone has listened since season seven or so. I finally graduated. I did it. My program was two years, so I did it on time.
Johnny C. Taylor, Jr.:
Love it.
Aly Sharp:
But I keep saying I'm in grad school in the episodes, so I just want to update, no longer can say that. And I am starting my people analytics specialty credential, just because I am a data girl, even though I work in marketing, data is very interesting to me. And as I was graduating, I was deciding between HR and marketing. So, this is a good bridge between the two. But yeah, I just had to plug some of our educational products, because they truly are amazing, and wouldn't be...
Johnny C. Taylor, Jr.:
Congratulations too. Let me just say that, congratulations, but you're living this. This is why you're so well suited for the SHRM culture. We are all... You know one of our guiding principles is being smart and curious. So, there are a lot of smart people. The curiosity is what's leading you to pursue these other areas that may not be very clear to you. Marketing, and data analytics, and people, you're like, "Where is this?" You're curious. And that curiosity is going to serve you well, because you don't know what your jobs will be. Hopefully they'll be with SHRM, because we got a lot of opportunity for really talented people like you. But yeah, you live that principle of being smart, and curious, the guiding principle, and also acting on it, and the actions are related to lifelong learning.
Aly Sharp:
Absolutely. So, thank you, Johnny, so much for joining us. I think this is your first episode of Career Compass, so it is truly my honor that I got to host this episode with you today.
Johnny C. Taylor, Jr.:
Well, bring me back.
Aly Sharp:
Yeah.
Johnny C. Taylor, Jr.:
I'll see [inaudible 00:23:08] back, and now I know, right? All right, you all be well, and wishing you all, especially the young folks listening, or returning to the community, because there could be people who stepped out for a while, stopped out to raise children, et cetera. Wherever you are in your journey, I hope what we've said today, some part of it resonates with you, and that you take something away that will make your career better. We hope to be your Career Compass.
Aly Sharp:
And for our listeners, as a reminder that this podcast is approved to provide 0.5 PDCs towards the SHRM-CP and SHRM-SCP if you listen to the full episode. You may enter this activity ID, which is 25-GS3VG into your SHRM certification portal. Please note that this activity ID will expire September 3rd, 2025. Before we say goodbye, I encourage everyone to follow Career Compass wherever you get your podcast. If you enjoy today's episode, please take a moment to leave a review, and help others discover the show. Finally, you can find all of our episodes on our website at shrm.org/careercompass. Thanks for joining our conversation, and we'll catch you next time.