In this episode of Career Compass, hosts Vernon Williams and Kevin Abbed speak with HR and talent acquisition expert Shannon Taylor to discuss best practices in bringing the right talent to your organization.
Hiring the best workforce is not only important for meeting operational goals, but also a critical factor in maintaining an organization's financial solvency. According to SHRM research, the added cost of replacing an employee is consistently 6 to 9 months of their salary, and with employees leaving in record numbers, it’s increasingly important for organizations to develop effective talent acquisition strategies to avoid the deadly cost of deadly and develop effective talent acquisition strategies. In this episode of Career Compass, hosts Vernon Williams and Kevin Abbed speak with HR and talent acquisition expert Shannon Taylor to discuss best practices in evaluating, sourcing, and orienting staff to achieve maximum results.
Follow/subscribe to Career Compass on your favorite listening platform; rate and review on Apple Podcasts. Hear more podcasts from SHRM.
shrm.org | Facebook | LinkedIn | Twitter | Instagram
Vernon Williams:
Welcome back to season four of Career Compass, a podcast from SHRM, the Society for Human Resource Management, and the SHRM foundation. Career Compass prepares the future leaders today for better workplaces tomorrow.
Kevin:
As the voice of all things work, SHRM supports students and emerging professionals with advice, information, and resources for every step of your career.
Vernon Williams:
Designed for the student or emerging professional, Career Compass delivers timely, relevant, and critical conversations about work to help you succeed in your career journey. Thank you for joining us for today's episode. My name is Vernon Williams and I will be your co-host.
Kevin:
My name is Kevin [Aben 00:00:36], and I will also be your co-host. During this episode, we will explore the world of talent acquisition with different industries and fields, as well as discuss career pathways for those looking to pursue talent acquisitions as a profession. Joining us for today's discussion is Mr. Shannon Taylor, who has worked in the talent acquisition space for more than a decade. He has a special connection to SHRM, which we'll talk about a little later. Also, just so you know, this episode is valid for professional development, credit, or PDCs for the SHRM CP or SHRM SCP. We'll provide the code later in the episode.
Vernon Williams:
With that, let's get started. Talent acquisitions at its core is about sourcing, attracting, interviewing, hiring, and onboarding employees. For you, Kevin, and you're probably closer to the demographic that we're hoping to target here, being students and emerging professionals. Let me ask you, when you think about what attracts you to a job or an organization, what are you looking for and what catches your attention?
Kevin:
It's a great question, Vernon. Honestly, for me, as someone who is three years into my career and has spent all three of those years with the same company, the thing that attracted me is upward mobility. I want to know that the effort I put in and the work I'm doing is going to lead to success, not only for the company, but also personal growth and personal success. Coming in, I started here as an intern. This is now my third role if you count my internship in three years. Having that upward mobility and knowing that I'm going to be able to grow and not stay in the same role for too long is one of the huge things that attracted me. But let me go ahead and kick this back to you, Vernon. I know you've been on both sides of the interview table. What's your favorite interview question?
Vernon Williams:
Honestly, Kevin, it's when they ask, which I feel like is probably the first question in a lot of interviews, "Tell me something about yourself." I love that question because it gives me an open ended, free range to talk about myself, but in the context of the job that I'm applying for. If I've done my homework, I can probably personalize it to who's actually asking the question so that I can cover all bases, a little something about me, how it connects to the job, and then psychologically, I'm trying to connect myself to who's making the hiring decision so that all those things ultimately say, "Go," and ideally finish up with a job offer being made to me. That's probably where I go with things. I'm sure our speaker can talk way more about interviews, proper protocols, what they look for, and all that stuff.
Without further ado, let's kick things off. Shannon Taylor currently holds position of Senior Director for talent acquisition at Lowe's based in Morrisville, North Carolina. Shannon is a partner to the business and translates the human capital initiatives into commercial and operational excellence. In his role, Mr. Taylor leads the talent acquisition strategy and process for corporate, technology, early talent, and supply chain. Mr. Taylor leads a team of over 65 talent acquisition professionals and is responsible for up to 15,000 hires annually throughout the United States. Prior to joining Lowe's, Mr. Taylor led global talent acquisition for Republic Services, where he was responsible for a team of 60 talent acquisition professionals and responsible for delivering over 13,000 hires on an annual basis. Shannon's additional talent acquisition experiences include working for Hard Rock International, Royal Caribbean Cruises, Wyndham Vacation Ownership, and Shannon holds a BA degree in economics from the University of Florida in Gainesville, Florida. We are extremely excited about today's conversation. With that, Career Compass would like to warmly welcome Shannon Taylor.
Shannon Taylor:
Thank you for the invitation. It's my pleasure to join you all and share some stories and insights.
Vernon Williams:
Thanks for being here, Shannon. I'm going to kick things off. Don't hurt me too much on this one. You're quite the accomplished HR professional. You've been part of a leadership team of so many major brands and corporations. As we talked about a little bit in our intro, you have a connection to SHRM that includes your brother, who is president and CEO of SHRM, our boss, Johnny C. Taylor Jr. I have a younger brother and older brother myself, so I have a sense of what you might say. But I want to ask you, what's it like having a brother who is seen as an expert and thought leader in the field that you work in?
Shannon Taylor:
It's a unique experience. I would say I have the pleasure of having a front row seat. Because of that, it gives me a slight advantage because I get to bounce things off of him, understand his perspective, share my perspectives. I think that hopefully shapes his perspective in some cases. But ultimately, I always tell people I've got one of the best big brothers in the world. No matter how old I get, I'm always the little brother. I'm sure if you ask him, he will always say, "My little brother, Shannon." But I wouldn't trade it for the world.
Vernon Williams:
That's why I say I'm in the middle. I got an older brother and a younger one. It goes both ways. I'm sure, especially looking at your resume and all the things that you've accomplished, that the thought goes both ways and it's mutual respect amongst the two of you guys.
Shannon Taylor:
Absolutely.
Vernon Williams:
I want to move on just a little bit because I know our listeners probably have a decent sense of who your brother is. But this show is about you. We wanted to get to know you a little bit better. Shannon, tell us a little bit about yourself, tell us who Shannon Taylor is, who the person is. How did you transition from earning a BA in economics to a thriving career in talent acquisitions?
Shannon Taylor:
I always say every road has its turns and twists and you find yourself in places you never considered along the way. You start to look back and you go, "Wow, I've developed a career." For me, number one, I would say, "Who is Shannon Taylor?" Shannon Taylor, I'm a regular guy. I'm a husband. I am a dad. I am a friend. I'm a brother. I'm a cousin. I am a normal guy who goes to Costco on the weekends, does dance with my daughters, and all of those great things. Then from a talent acquisition perspective in my career, I started out actually in construction. My first job out of undergrad was a construction superintendent for a large home builder in central Florida. It wasn't in the HR profession. It wasn't something that was on my radar initially, to be very honest. Really, I had a lot of fun in learning a new skill. I have an economics degree.
However, I was hired in construction. You ask yourself, "How in the world does a guy with an economics degree get hired to manage construction?" The answer is I can develop relationships really quickly. I was hired with 10 other individuals to join the organization. I was the only one hired without a construction background. I learned a ton along the way. Over the few years I was there, I built probably 75 to 80 homes. Then it came to a point that said, "What do I love about the work that I'm doing? Is this what I'm meant to do?" I took some self-reflection and some time. I said, "What do I love about the job that I have?" The one thing that kept coming back to me wasn't managing the construction process. It wasn't being out in the field, dealing with the trades, and engaging with the customer. It was a small percentage of my job that allowed me to go back to my Alma mater University of Florida and stand at the career booth twice a year.
I said, "That's what I want to do." I then said, "I'm going to find out, how do I get paid to do that?" I did some research and then I took a leap of faith, to be honest with you. I said, "I'm going to go and join an executive search firm as a coordinator." I left my management role, became a coordinator, sourced candidates, cold called, got hung up on, all of those things and loved every minute of it. That's how I transitioned from going from an economics degree to construction into TA. Honestly, it has just grown from there, where I started on the agency side and learned a ton about the nuts and bolts of talent acquisition, recruiting, and sourcing to understanding various industries and roles from finance, accounting, HR, and IT to healthcare to you name it, to then saying, "I want to understand what's happening on the other side. I'm on the agency side now, but what is the HR person on the other side? What is the hiring manager on the other side looking at? Why aren't they hiring my candidate? What's taking them so long?" All of these different things.
I leveraged my network, really looked for opportunities, and landed my first corporate role with Wyndham. There, I learned the other half of what I was doing. I understood how the corporate world works, the roles on that side, why we engage with agencies, how you engage with agencies, all of those sorts of things, and how do you manage budgets? Really from there, it's just been sometimes a bit of a blur. I pinch myself sometimes, look back, and go, "Wow, I've done some interesting things."
Vernon Williams:
Shannon, I absolutely love that response. I want to point out just a couple of things to our audience. First is how you pursued your passion, the things that you were interested in, and made that your career. Then the second part, and this is maybe a two part thing that I don't necessarily know that everybody pays attention to in that transition because it was a very quick point that you made, and that it was either a lateral and potentially a backward step so that you could then rise in a different career path. We have a lot of folks within the student and emerging professionals realm that are transitioning careers. If you can do it, great, if you can make an upward leap as you transition and change industries. But a lot of people can't do that for various reasons. That leap of faith that you talked about has ultimately paid off, but it took a lot of hard work on your behalf to get there.
Shannon Taylor:
I think that's a great call out, Vernon. One thing I would say is that careers aren't linear. They don't go in one direction. They go up, down, left, right, side to side. It's really important that you have an end goal in mind, you take those steps that will ultimately get you toward that end goal, and understanding that it's not one way to get it done and there's no linear path. It's a lot of twists and turns along the way.
Kevin:
Shannon, I couldn't agree more. Everything seems so linear when you're in college, "I'm going to get a degree in finance. I'm going to go work for a bank. I'm going to go work for a hedge fund and that's going to be my career." But it's never really like that. when I graduated with a degree in communications, never did I think I was going to be working for a nonprofit. It is crazy how that works out.
But moving on, as we talked a little bit about in your intro, you worked in HR, specifically town acquisition in a variety of industries and companies, the likes of Royal Caribbean, Norwegian Cruise Lines, Hard Rock International, Wyndham Worldwide, Republic Services, which is the second largest provider of services, and the domestic non-hazardous solid waste, and of course, Lowe's. What are some of the differences in similarities you have observed based on the various industries in terms of their talent and acquisition areas?
Shannon Taylor:
Each area has a lot of similarities. The first similarity across the board is people. When you think about talent acquisition, I'm in the people business. As some people do M and A, mergers and acquisitions, and you're acquiring an organization and putting two together, I am, for lack of a better term, acquiring the services of people and marrying that to the need of the business. No matter what industry you're in, that is the baseline across. Then you start talking about differences. Differences come in the way of global versus domestic in some cases because the international labor pool is very different than the labor pool in the United States. If you think about in the cruise line industry, those that work on the ships are typically non-US citizens. They're coming from various countries around the globe. You get into things like the various rules around immigration and working on ships that, if you're only doing a domestic role in the US, does not even cross your radar.
You get into things on the hospitality side, where you're talking about different visa work requirements to brings international workers here into the US as it relates to hotels and other things around J-1 programs, understanding what that means, having to go and interview these individuals in India, in the Philippines, in Croatia, in Eastern Europe, or wherever, there's a lot of variability in those industries. Then when you think about here in the US, if you think about a company that moves goods from point A to point B, some organizations will leverage third party logistic resources to drive their goods from point A to point B. Some organizations will hire their own drivers. Then you start getting into CDL requirements, medical clearances, and things that when you're just hiring, let's call it an accountant or a cashier, some of those logistics you don't really run into. But in these various industries, there's so many variables, but they're all similar in some ways as well.
Vernon Williams:
I appreciate that response and telling us a little bit more about T and A. We know a lot of our emerging professionals want to go into that particular area of human resources. I want to shift gears a little bit because both you and Kevin talked about what you went to school and studied, and then what you ultimately do as a career now. One of the ways that I think that can happen if you did not necessarily study that in school, or some folks may do it through apprenticeship programs or other ways, is through certifications. You've got a couple of human resource related certifications including your SHRM CP. Two part question, what has earning your SHRM CP meant for you and your career success? The second part, as a recruiter, what does it mean when you see certifications on a person's resume?
Shannon Taylor:
For me, getting my SHRM certification, one, it helped me get a broader understanding of HR. Being in the talent acquisition space, it sometimes can be harder to get a broader scope of understanding. I wanted to make sure that as I partner with my various HR counterpart, whether that's compensation, benefits, HR, or employee relations, I understood, could speak the same language, provide insights, and have the credibility for them to really understand my perspective. That was the first part. It was just a goal of mine. It was something that I really wanted to do. it has been fantastic for me.
Then as I look at individuals that get it, what it says to me is that you've taken the time to become a professional in your space, and that it's important to certify your skills and ensure that you are continuously learning and continuously evolving because one thing we know is that in our HR space, it is an ever changing profession. What our rules were yesterday won't be the ones for today. Having that SHRM certification and having the requirement of getting those continuing education credits to get your certification ensures, and it's something that I look at, it tells me that you are a student of your game and you're continuously learning because you want to keep that certification
Vernon Williams:
In higher education, we used to always say, "The lifelong learner." I felt like years ago when I entered that profession or that field, that was a term that I didn't hear a lot. Now I think I hear that in every profession, in every field, in every industry. Folks are seeking those folks that can be lifelong learners.
Shannon Taylor:
100%.
Kevin:
Moving towards some of the more interview related stuff that comes along with your job, when you're interviewing and looking to hire someone, what intangibles are you looking for? How do you evaluate or probe for those intangibles in a traditional interview setting?
Shannon Taylor:
Most individuals, you will hear the things around the star method, so the situation, task, action, and result. You're doing that behavioral based interviewing model, which I find to be useful. That way, if you could find out about past results, it'll predict future outcomes. When you're trying to figure out skills, that's a really great way to do it. For me, as I look at individuals in an interview setting, I want to understand, what's your motivation? Are you money motivated? Are you experience motivated? Are you title motivated? Is there a connection to the organization that you are trying to get and this opportunity gives you that? Looking for that motivation is key, understanding what that is, and making sure that it aligns to the organization.
The other piece is, can you spend some time with this person? When I think about that, most of us will spend more time at work than we do at home. With the pandemic, that changes a bit because there's a lot of remote work that is now in play. You spend more time working at home than you do just hanging out at home, I should say that. You are wanting to find out, is this individual someone that you could spend your time with? In that, you'll say, "If the things align to where the motivations align, it's someone who fits in the team, provides value, and has the skill..." If those three things align, that's when you have what I call a match made in heaven.
Vernon Williams:
I can't agree with you more. Then all of the interviews that I've done throughout my career, that whole factor of, do I want to spend more time with this person, not necessarily just me as an individual, but the team, do we want to spend additional time? If I felt like that 30 minutes drug on, I was like, "Man, I was pulling teeth by the time I got to the end of that time period," that was somebody that was not going to make it to the next round. I very much believe that we can train for a lot of things. But the fit, the personality, the motivation, the drive, those are the intangibles, which was the question that I feel like are very, very important when you're talking about bringing somebody into your company.
Shannon Taylor:
The only thing that I would add to that is one of the sayings that I use all the time when leaders are making decisions, "It's 90% personality. It's 10% skill." One thing that leaders will tell you, particularly really good ones, is that you can teach a skill. You can't teach personality.
Vernon Williams:
I do have a one quick follow up question on that. Money being a motivator, or whether it's something else, what are you doing with that information once you know what is motivating this person? It's sometimes location. I'm in the DC Metro area. A big factor in folks wanting to come work around here was that you're close to a major metropolitan area. What are you doing with that information once you have it?
Shannon Taylor:
One of the things is money is always... We aren't volunteers. We have lives to manage and things like that. It is something that comes up all the time. You'll get several different schools of thought. Some candidates will say, "I'm not going to tell you what I'm making. I don't want to pigeonhole myself." My perspective has always been with every organization that I've worked with is, "Help me understand where you are and what your expectations are." More than likely what it does is makes you make sure that we aren't speaking apples and oranges. Most companies have salary ranges anyway. Let's say, for example, you are looking for a role. I'm just going to use some numbers just to get it out there. That role pays $10 an hour. But your expectation is $20 an hour. Nine times out of 10, let's have that conversation now so that I don't waste your time and say, "We love you so much, but we're going to pay you 12." Let me just start now and say, "This person's looking for this number. Are we able to meet that? If not, then let's not waste their time or find an opportunity that aligns better to their expectation."
Vernon Williams:
Sure.
Shannon Taylor:
That way it's better candidate experience, and it's a better experience on the employer. Secondarily, for candidates, you don't get to that let down at the end. But you have a real honest conversation about compensation. The companies that do it the best will say, "This is what we pay for the role regardless of your expectation because you may come in and say, 'I'm looking for $12 an hour,' in a job when hired may pay 20. They're going to pay you what the job pays. That's maybe 20 bucks an hour." Those are the kind of companies you want to work for. If you feel like company, you're having to get through some of the low balls and things like that, it may not be the right fit for you.
Vernon Williams:
Sure. I want to pause just for a second to take care of a couple of housekeeping items. First, those of you listening to this podcast who are seeking professional development credit, this program is valid for 0.5 PDCs for the SHRM CP or SHRM SCP. The code to redeem your PDC is two, three, dash, seven, W, Z, seven, W. Please note that this code will expire on May 20th, 2023. Again, that code is the number two, the number three, dash, the number seven, the letter W as in "whiskey," the letter Z is in "Zulu," the number seven, and the letter W as in "whiskey."
Kevin:
Speaking of PDCs, one place to earn several PDCs, 27 in fact, while networking with peers, connecting with mentors, and expanding your HR knowledge is at SHRM 22 this June. The SHRM annual conference and expo, which has drawn more than 20,000 attendees in the past, is a can't miss experience for any current or emerging HR professional. It's even better for students with a curated experience featuring career focused programming and discounted member pricing at just $425 for in-person registration in New Orleans and $275 for virtual passes. For more information, visit SHRM.co/SHRM22student.
Vernon Williams:
Jumping back into the podcast, Shannon, what advice can you offer someone who is looking to grow their career as a talent acquisition professional?
Shannon Taylor:
Build your network. Relationships are key. That's the one thing that I can't stress enough, find individuals that are outside of your organization that are in various roles, whether that's in HR, outside of HR. Get involved with the various SHRM organizations in your city, town, state. Having a very wide network is one that is going to serve you well, not only in your talent acquisition career, but your career as a whole. The other piece that I would add is to be a student of the game, that lifelong learner that we talked about. Lean into the various opportunities to learn a different way to source, a different way to interview. Understand not only just the nuts and bolts of interviewing candidates and scheduling candidates, but the operation itself. Start to think bigger than just the one hire. Doing those things will separate you from your counterparts and ultimately drive your career growth.
Kevin:
Shannon, I think you hit the nail in the head. What jumped out to me is how many times we heard "networking" in this conversation. My parents have said this to me, I had professors in college say this to me, coaches say this to me, like you said, "It's more about who you know than what you know at the end of the day." If you're able to network, build relationships, and manage relationships, that just leads to your personal success and the success of the people around you. One of my favorite quotes is, "A rising tide raises all ships." I think networking and building a strong network attributes to that. We're going to go ahead and wrap up the show with one last question. I see here that you've been actively involved in Arizona SHRM. What has being a part of this group meant to you? How have you impacted the lives of others?
Shannon Taylor:
Arizona SHRM has been a fantastic group for me to be a part of. I'm currently an executive board member with the Arizona SHRM State Council. I came in as the treasurer. I've been the treasurer for the last few years now. One of the things is I relocated to Arizona from Florida looking to grow my network and find a way to connect in the community. Why not connect with my own HR people? I've been able to develop new relationships, find my way through this new city that I had moved into. Also, it's been great because I've been able to bring a different perspective to a group of HR professionals here in Arizona. I've been able to provide presentations to small business owners on how to best recruit in this tough environment. To give people and provide some support and guidance in this way has been really, really helpful. I get to learn a lot too. I get to interact with those that are in learning development and training and get to understand other perspectives. It's been a fantastic experience for me to be a part of the local SHRM chapter and state council.
Vernon Williams:
Shannon, we really appreciate you taking the time out of your day to share your career path as well as your insights to the HR community.
Shannon Taylor:
I appreciate it, guys. Thanks for having me.
Kevin:
With that, we're going to bring this episode of Career Compass to a close. We'd like to thank SHRM and the SHRM foundation for providing us with this platform. But more importantly, we'd like to thank you all for joining us and hope you stay with us throughout the season as we discuss more topics like this episode.
Vernon Williams:
For more exclusive content, resources, and tools to help you succeed in your career, consider joining SHRM as a student member. You can visit us at SHRM.org/students to learn more about being a part of a community of over 300,000 HR and business leaders who impact the lives of over 115 million employees worldwide.
Kevin:
If you liked what you heard, follow or subscribe to Career Compass on Apple Podcast, Spotify, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Do you have a topic you think we should cover or a guest we should hear from? We'd love to hear it. Email us at careercompasspodcast@SHRM.org.
Vernon Williams:
Lastly, are you looking for more work and career related podcasts? Check out all things work and Honest HR at SHRM.org/podcast. Thank you again for listening. We'll catch you on the next episode of Career Compass.