In this episode, co-hosts Vernon Williams and Ledia Dobi take you on an inspiring journey with guest Sam Demma, who suffered three career-ending sports injuries before pivoting to become an amazing entrepreneur and keynote speaker. Sam discusses how to overcome adversity, negative self-beliefs and the power of positive decision-making to help students succeed personally and professionally.
Students and emerging professionals face many difficult situations and must overcome challenges both at home and in the workplace. In this episode, co-hosts Vernon Williams and Ledia Dobi take you on an inspiring journey with guest Sam Demma, who suffered three career-ending sports injuries before pivoting to become an amazing entrepreneur and keynote speaker. Sam discusses how to overcome adversity, negative self-beliefs and the power of positive decision-making to help students succeed personally and professionally.
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Vernon Williams:
Welcome back to season four of Career Compass, a podcast from SHRM, the Society for Human Resource Management and the SHRM Foundation. Career Compass prepares the future leaders today for better workplaces tomorrow.
Ledia Dobi:
As the voice of all things work, SHRM supports students and emerging professionals with advice, information, and resources for every step of your career.
Vernon Williams:
Designed for the student or emerging professional, Career Compass delivers timely, relevant, and critical conversations about work to help you succeed in your career journey. Thank you for joining us for this episode. My name is Vernon Williams, and I will be your co-host.
Ledia Dobi:
And my name is Ledia Dobi, and I will also be your co-host. During this episode, we will discuss overcoming adversity, self-belief and positive decision making. We have the perfect guest who has not only overcome some pretty difficult situations, but did it with a smile. A little bit later in the episode, Mr. Sam Demma is going to give you all strategies to help you succeed at home and in the workplace.
Vernon Williams:
With that being said, let's get started. So first off, Ledia, you're not going to get away with just saying your name. You got to introduce yourself to our audience and tell them a little bit about yourself.
Ledia Dobi:
Sure. Yeah. So my name is Ledia Dobi. I'm originally from New York City, but I live in DC and now work out of the SHRM headquarters at Alexandria. I recently graduated from American University just last year, so I'm pretty new to the workforce. Something like Career Compass would have been very helpful if I had discovered it just a bit earlier in my career. I'm extremely excited to be joining this team and speaking to very interesting guests like Mr. Sam Demma, who's going to talk about empowering youth and inspiring the next generation into positive decision making.
Vernon Williams:
So I'm sure given that you have sort of transitioned to the workplace and you just finished college not too long ago, you've had some experience with overcoming adversity. You want to give us one of those examples before we jump into our guests?
Ledia Dobi:
Yeah, I think one of the things that I struggled with earlier in my career was standing up for myself and speaking up for the ideas or the projects that I wanted to partake in. For example, one of our pillars at SHRM is "push back to move forward." In the beginning I was having kind of difficulty pushing back and engaging in those difficult conversations in order to collectively move forward, but I think with practice I've gotten there for sure.
Vernon Williams:
That's such a great response, especially given that lots of young women and Women's History Month being now, lots of folks are talking about that in the workplace, especially for certain early career professionals so I appreciate you sharing that. You're not necessarily alone, because I think all of us have had something that we've had to overcome in a workplace setting. I feel like mine was at first like credentials, and so I felt like I was in a career... For the audience members who know me, I was in higher ed for a number of years and I did not have a formal higher education background that wasn't what I went to school to do. And so I had to seek out a lot of other training, a lot of advice, support and so forth to sort of overcome some of the challenges of not having the background in the particular field that I was working in at that time. I of course later went on to gain a formal degree in higher education and I think that sort of laid the foundation for me to be able to launch and elevate my career to a nice level.
Ledia Dobi:
Yeah, and I think it goes to show that even non-traditional paths can get you where you want to go and can further your career. So thank you for sharing that.
Vernon Williams:
Of course. With that, let's transition to our guests because so many folks are dealing with challenging situations. You know, I'm a firm believer in how much attitude can determine your altitude, so today's guest is going to talk to us all about that and sort of maximizing that potential. So let me introduce Sam. Sam Demma was an entrepreneur and keynote speaker who doesn't let his age define his drive or credibility. His goal is to provide students with the tools and strategies they need to become servant leaders in their schools, businesses, communities, and the lives of those around them. It all started at a young age with, and this is his words and not mine, garbage. After three career ending soccer injuries, Sam co-founded PickWaste, a grassroots initiative that brings people together to pick up trash in their communities. That experience confirmed how small consistent actions could have a significant impact, and he lives those messages and all he does.
Since 2017, Sam has delivered more than 200 presentations in six countries all across North America. He is the youngest member of the Board of Directors at the Canadian Association of Professional Speakers. Sam believes there is no limit to where small actions can take big thinkers. So we are excited about today's conversation and with that, Career Compass would like to warmly welcome Sam Demma.
Sam Demma:
Thank you so much for the warm introduction. It's my pleasure to be here with both of you and share some insights and talk through some stories.
Vernon Williams:
So I'm going to go ahead and get things started with my passion, which is athletics. I don't know if I shared with this audience that my research actually was in athletic injuries and I recognized through a number of interviews and through two years of painstaking research sort of the effects that it can have on somebody obviously physically, but more so mentally and what that means to their identity and basically their entire world. So why don't you talk to us a little bit about what that experience, the three careering injuries was like for you and tell us a little bit about your background in that process and what has led you sort of to this point.
Sam Demma:
When I was five years old, my earliest memory was sitting on the couch on my father's lap, watching soccer games. There would be screaming with passion when the team we were cheering for scored a goal and words that I'm too young to use when the team we were cheering for were losing. What that did for me growing up was attached my belief of love and happiness and success and fulfillment with this sport of soccer. There would be moments where my entire family would be at our house squished shoulder to shoulder on my couch, watching professional games. We would miss family functions to see penalty shootouts in extra time if it was a team you were passionate about watching.
I held onto that dream until the age of 13 years old. When I left everything about my normal life behind, left my family, my friends, my school to move to Italy on an opportunity to live with over 25 international athletes all from different countries and cultures who came together to form this international team. And the goal of this program was to land every single one of us on the team, a professional contract with a local professional club.
Vernon Williams:
Oh wow.
Sam Demma:
Every day we would train for two to three hours, on the weekends we would get on this big bus and go to different local clubs and play against their youth programs in the hope that one of the coaches would pick us up. It wouldn't be a trip to Italy without the food, so when I wasn't on the field, you could find me in some local shop eating pizza. Question for both of you, pineapples or no pineapples?
Ledia Dobi:
Pineapples.
Vernon Williams:
Definitely pineapple.
Ledia Dobi:
What?
Vernon Williams:
I'm sorry, go ahead Ledia.
Ledia Dobi:
No, that's not Italian.
Sam Demma:
I'm definitely no pineapples.
Ledia Dobi:
Okay, thank you.
Vernon Williams:
I'm pineapples and I can put some chicken on it, so yeah, I'm all in.
Ledia Dobi:
Perfect.
Sam Demma:
I love it. I love it. Well, if I wasn't eating pizza, I was probably shoving my face with pasta. And if it wasn't pizza or pasta, it's because dinner had finished, I was onto the next course shoving my face with gelato. I gained about 10 pounds on that trip, but we don't talk about that part of the story. What ended up happening is I built an amazing community there over the six months. I was exposed to what it's like living in a professional culture. I came back home to Canada extremely excited and passionate about bringing that dream of playing pro soccer to life. All four years throughout high school, I gave up everything if it didn't support that goal and dream.
I think one of the most beautiful things about sacrifice, whether it's in relation to your professional career or personal hobbies, is that when you intentionally give something up, at some point in your future, it starts to pay off. That decision you made to sacrifice something gets replaced with some amount of progress or the opportunity you were hoping for. For me, that was a full ride scholarship to a division one school in the states. 17 years old sitting in my fourth period economics class, I hear this ping on my computer and there it was, this email from Tony McManus, the men's head coach of Memphis University in Tennessee that said, "We are very interested in you as an athlete. We want to bring you down to our school on an official visit," which means they pay for the flights, they pay for the hotel, they fly you down, wind you and dime you in the hope that it makes you decide to go back to their school next year.
And just imagine how five year old kindergarten Sam Demma must have felt in that moment who grew up sitting on his father's lap, watching soccer games, thinking that it meant love and success. What I wasn't prepared for in that moment was the next two years of tragedy. I ended up having three major knee injuries toward the cartilage in both of my knees and the labrum in my right hip. I underwent two surgeries. All throughout my senior year and my fifth year of high school, I did everything in my power to get healthy and back on the field but every time I got to a place of physical health, I ended up rein injuring my body and requiring another serious surgery or a couple month recovery. And after two years of trying to get back on my feet and bring the dream to life, I made the hard decision to stop playing.
Vernon Williams:
Wow.
Sam Demma:
Like you mentioned earlier, it was definitely one of the most difficult decisions in my life because that's all I knew. I mean, it was so bad that my email address growing up was soccersam99@hotmail.com. You know, soccer and Sam are one and the same. And so that's really the background that brought me out of my identity as a athlete and slowly started to branch my way into an identity of someone who tries to use his time and energy to make a positive difference in the lives of others. Maybe we can get into that at a another point of the interview.
Vernon Williams:
So I imagine that was obviously quite difficult and I know a lot of today's conversation is sort of overcoming adversity. So with all of that challenge that you were faced with, what steps did you take and what would you recommend for our listeners to do when they're staring difficult times in the face?
Sam Demma:
I was lucky that I had a grade 12 teacher who helped me shift my perspective. The first thing he told me was soccer is just one game that you're choosing to play in life, but I want you to imagine life has thousands of games because it does, and all you need to do is develop the courage to start playing a new game. He helped me understand that this skills and abilities that I learned pursuing that dream, going through the difficult times and experiences were things that were transferable that would also help me in any other pursuit or career that I chose to venture down in the future.
Sports taught me so much and so the first thing I would recommend understanding is that the difficulty you're going through right now is going to help you build the character traits, the grit and the resilience you need to get through other challenging times you're going to go through in your future. So as much as it's a difficult experience, understand that it's actually setting yourself up for future success because the chances are you're going to go through difficult times again. You know, adversity doesn't strike once. Life is a collection of hills and valleys and I think when you're in a valley, remind yourself that this too shall pass, there's going to be a hill soon, and you're going to be on top of the mountain. But have the humility to know that when you are on top of the mountain, that too shall pass and at some point you will be in a valley again.
I think when you look at life from that slightly different perspective, it really helps. The actual three words my teacher shared with me that helped me get through the adversity was small consistent actions. He continuously reminded us that if you want to make a change, you want to build a new future, rebuild yourself, make a difference, focus not on doing massive things, focus on taking small consistent actions. When you're going through a challenging situation, it can feel overwhelming. Instead of focusing on solving the entire problem in the next 30 minutes, focus on the next small step and if you do that consistently over and over again, I don't think it's long before you get out of the challenging time and are on to hopefully a journey to the top of another mountain.
Vernon Williams:
Sure, and you're wise beyond your years. You sound almost like my dad, who would frequently say something along the lines of, "In order for you to enjoy the mountaintops, you must first endure the valley." So the whole thing about hills and valleys, you're spot on with it.
Sam Demma:
Thanks, man. That's so cool. Yeah. I'm glad I'm not a family man.
Vernon Williams:
Take your time. Take your time, man.
Ledia Dobi:
Yeah, I actually wanted to bring up something similar. It's very impressive that you've accomplished so much and you're an entrepreneur. Being that you're young and you built this entire brand and business and you speak at many functions, I feel like you have a lot of insights that would be very useful to our young audience, our young professionals. So I wanted to ask what steps can students and emerging professionals take to ensure that they follow up and achieve the goals that they have set forth. Because I know at least personally for me, it's kind of easy to start something, but actually following through and making sure I see it all the way to the end when I have a million other priorities, it's hard. So what advice you have for young professionals in this position?
Sam Demma:
I think the first thing to realize is success needs to be a personal definition. Sometimes society feeds us a definition of success, our parents feed us a definition of success, our friends feed us a definition of success, school feeds us a definition of success. I think the first thing to realize is success is a personal journey. So first and foremost, don't define success based on anyone else's ideas, beliefs, or expectations. Get very clear on what kind of future it is that you want to build for yourself and understand that it might actually disappoint the people around you, but it's much better to temporarily disappoint somebody than it is to go against your own gut and intuition and make a decision that's aligned with someone else's ideas for you, and then face regret personally for the rest of your life. So once you realize success is a personal journey and you are starting down a path that you truly are passionate about because it's something that you want.
I think a couple steps that could be very helpful are, one, understanding that the road has probably already been traveled. And there are people on the planet who might actually be doing the exact thing that you want to do right now and all it takes is a phone call, an email, an interaction with one of those individuals to get an amazing playbook that can help you bridge the gap from where you are now to where they are and where you want to be. To give you a perfect example, when I first started speaking, I was 17 years old and my family thought I was crazy, because I am Italian and Greek and we talk a lot and when I told them I was going to get paid to talk, they were like, "You're absolutely insane." But one of the first things I did practically was go on Google, search the term youth speaker and call everyone on the first five pages.
I said something along the lines of "My name is Sam. I'm 17 turning 18 years old. I want to do what you're doing right now, can I ask you some questions about the art of speaking and the sales and business side of it?" And almost every person I called had time for me. I still have the notes in a tiny little binder labeled Inspiring Phone Calls. Those initial, it was probably something like 20 to 25 calls, gave me all the resources, all of the steps, the playbooks that helped me bridge the gap between where I was at 17 and where I wanted to be and am today. So redefine your definition of success as a start, then find someone who's doing something similar or doing exactly what it is you aspire to do and try and make that person your mentor and teacher.
Then third and finally, I'll say, always strive to be of value. There are two ways I think people show up in the world when it comes to their careers and professions, one way is what can you give me? What can you give me? Look how great I am, what can you give me? The other approach and there's definitely more than two, but I'm lump-summing them buckets right now. The other approach is how can I help you? How can I be of service? How can I be of value? I've found that when I've tried to be of value to more people, so much more has come back to me. So I think, yeah, to sum it up, step one, change your definition of success, make sure you're pursuing something you love. Step two, find people who are doing it and make them your teachers and mentors. And step three, as you start journeying down your path, don't strive to showcase how great you are, strive to be of service and other people will tell you how great you are.
Ledia Dobi:
Yeah, that's really good advice especially the bit about finding mentors. I mean, I know a lot of people that are more established in their careers that are always willing to lend a hand to those that are just starting or maybe wanting to make a change or just want to achieve something different. Yeah, I know many people that would be willing to help out.
Sam Demma:
And you might make a phone call to someone who you'd love to talk to and they don't pick up. That's when I think persistence comes in. If that person doesn't answer, try someone else and follow up in a polite way that's of value to that person. Always really surprised when almost every person had time for me. And if someone doesn't have time for you, it's the wrong person to talk to.
Ledia Dobi:
Right, yeah.
Vernon Williams:
Where I'm from, when people start spitting the gospel, they say "Preach!" Because I'm feeling it, man. I was thinking while you were talking, especially when you said defining sort of what success means for the individual, it had me thinking of some sort of social media thing that Michael B. Jordan put out saying, "It's not me versus the next person. I'm not comparing myself to anybody else. It's me versus me, right?" And so that makes it all the difference when you're sort of internally thinking like what's going to make me happy or what's going to satisfy me. I think it just changes your motivation and how you look at the world and so I was vibing with what you were saying right there.
Sam Demma:
Appreciate it. Preach.
Vernon Williams:
So I'm going to shift gears just a little bit. One of the things that I know you do in your work is to help create high performing students. And since we've got lots of students and emerging professionals listening to this, first, can you tell us a little bit about what a high performing student is and what your best piece of advice is for say an average student to get on the pathway to becoming more of a high performing student?
Sam Demma:
Phenomenal question. I think there are some character traits that are very helpful as young professionals and just human beings in general. When I talk about high performing students, there are a specific few things. The first I believe is effective communication. What I mean by this is not that you have to stand on the stage and do presentations, but you can clearly and concisely express your ideas in a way that moves other people to action or understanding. You don't always have to have a call to action, but you always want to make sure that what you're saying someone else is able to comprehend and clearly understand. When I look in the world at people who are making a massive impact or companies that are making a huge difference, the people and the teams that are running them typically happen to be great storytellers, people who are effective communicators. I think spending the time and energy to build that skill of effective communication would be very worthwhile.
It was inspired in me by a book called How to Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie. It was a book I read when I was in high school and he talks about effective communication and it really stuck with me after reading that book. A second trait that I think about when I think of a high performing student or high performing human being is health. You can't be a high performing anything if you're dead. If you're not feeling good, you're not going to do good, so I believe crafting and carving out that time for physical exercise and mental fitness, whether that's meditation, daily walks, weight training or swimming, riding a bike. Whatever the outlet is for you, find something that works so you can keep your mind and body in a good condition. So those are the first two effective communication and taking care of your health.
I think a third big pillar of a high performing student is someone who listens. This could kind of be looped in with the effective communication, although I kind of want to separate them because when you're effectively communicating, most of the time you're the one doing the speaking, someone else is listening. We could turn this one as effective listening. You know, I think you learn so much more about other people, about situations when you actively listen. Sometimes we listen to other people just waiting for our chance to share our thoughts and respond, and I think it holds us back from getting to know other people, being able to take advantage of opportunities more thoroughly. So I would say effective communicators are high performing students, people that take care of their health, people that are effective listeners.
I would say resilience as well is definitely a character trait of a high performing student and you could couple that with persistence because people will tell you no. There is no chance that you will call the first person you want to get your dream job at the start of your career and it's all going to work out. People will reject you, people will tell you, no, they'll tell you're not good enough, you're not smart enough, and if you have the resilience to understand that no actually doesn't mean never in a business situation... Of course there are boundaries where no does mean no and we never cross those lines, but in a business situation and a career situation, we can actually redefine the word no to mean get more creative or show me how much you care, try again from a different approach. If we looked at no from that perspective, with the mindset of staying resilient and persistence, there isn't a situation we can't overcome, a challenge or an objection we can't overcome. Without getting into a bunch of other character traits, I think those are a few of them that come to mind when you ask that question.
Vernon Williams:
Yeah, that's a really good point, especially that last one when you say no doesn't necessarily mean no in a business standpoint. And shout out to sort of the student team that does Career Compass and a number of other things here at SHRM that we were just given an award for the Pursue Your Purpose Campaign Related to Students. One of the reasons why I think our team has been so successful is because nobody on the team is really saying no, right? We're always looking for that creative solution, so it's like either not right now, or we need additional people, or we need some financial resources, or there's some way that we can actually make this thing happen and so I really love how you tie that together with how that can change somebody's career. If they're hearing the no, how do you get more creative? How do you turn that no into maybe a not right now to a yes.
Sam Demma:
Mm, it's something that excites me. Do we have time to share one quick story about that?
Vernon Williams:
Absolutely.
Sam Demma:
There was a gentleman I wanted to interview on my podcast named Dr. Ivan Joseph. He is an expert in self-confidence that his PhD in sports psychology. It has a TED Talk with something like 20 plus million views. Growing up confidence was something I struggled with and something I see a lot of other students struggle with, so I was really inspired by this idea of interviewing him and asking him some questions that I was really curious about when it comes to developing confidence. I reached out to him via email with a nice pitch inviting him on the podcast and his assistant responded back saying, "We really appreciate your invitation, but Dr. Ivan Joseph's schedule won't allow for him to come on your show. All the best."
Old Sam Demma would've just said, "Okay, thank you so much for your consideration. I appreciate it." Instead, I followed up by asking a question because there is always a question behind the question or a question behind the statement or a statement behind the statement, meaning she was saying, "Dr. Ivan Joseph's schedule does not allow for him to come on your podcast." What she was really saying was it's not valuable for him because if it was valuable, he would make the time. And so I addressed the statement behind the statement by asking, "Well, would it be crazy to think you could let me know what would make this interview valuable for him? I'll set a goal and when I reach that goal and it's of value, I'll make a note to reach out in the future." She responded saying, "Wow, I appreciate your persistence. There are three things we think about as criteria when signing up Dr. Ivan Joseph for a podcast: the first is podcast audience. We like to go on shows that have at least a million downloads." Whew, no pressure, right?
I don't know if I'm ever going to hit that one. She said, "Step two, we would like to host themself to have a hundred thousand followers on social media and some celebrity past guests on the show." And I knew for a fact, I wasn't going to have any of those three things anytime soon, but at the bottom of her email, she had a little booklet. It was a PDF of Dr. Ivan Joseph's book and it said, "Download now." Without asking, I downloaded this book and I spent three hours reading it and I responded back to her email saying, "Thank you so much for the information. I've set the new goal and will reach out in the future when I hit some of these milestones. PS."
I just spent three hours reading this book, and I have an idea that might help you increase the amount of people that sign up for it on your website. She has nothing to lose. She responded back saying, "I would love to hear the idea. Tell me more." I shared the idea. By the way, this whole exchange of emails is back and forth of about four and five days. It wasn't all instantaneous.
Vernon Williams:
Sure.
Sam Demma:
I share the idea and she says, "Oh my goodness, amazing idea. I'm having a team on it right now. They made the change on the website." I waited three weeks to ask again. I think after you provide someone with value, you put yourself in a position where you have the permission to ask again, but you have to ask in a more creative way. At least that's my belief if you want to really truly turn someone's no into a yes. And so, instead of just sending an email, I spent a few hours building a page on my website. I know this is audio, I wish we could. We could see it, so maybe we can include the link in the show notes of the episode.
But the podcast page is something like samdemma.com/doctorivanjoseph. It has a picture of his face, his bio, a link to his speaking website, three of his most watched YouTube videos, logos to where all of his work has been featured and this massive paragraph that we could use to promote the podcast episode after it airs. I sent them this landing page and let them know that I spent three hours building it in the hope that they would change their opinion and decision and come on the show and that we could use this website page to promote the episode after it airs.
Vernon Williams:
Wow.
Sam Demma:
And him and his assistant were like, "Oh my goodness, you've overdone yourself. Not only will he come on the show, but we've shared this example with our teens as like a marketing strategy and idea." What's crazy is when we think about that story very quickly, he told me that I needed three things, a million downloads, a hundred thousand followers and past celebrity guests. And the time he came on my show, I didn't have any of those three things, which is why I believe when we approach people from the perspective of, "Let me show you how important you are. Let me show you how much research I've done on you and how much I care about what it is you are doing and ask in a more creative way." There isn't a no that we can't turn into a yes.
Vernon Williams:
I love it, man. That story too. Congrats.
Sam Demma:
Thanks man. I appreciate it.
Ledia Dobi:
So one of the things that you mentioned earlier was communication skills and how important communication skills are, especially in relation to high performing individuals. So you offered a statistic that 65% of hiring managers say strong spoken communication skills are top priority in applicants. 65% is a pretty substantial number, so what are some tactics that you use to become more comfortable with public speaking and how can others apply those tactics as well?
Sam Demma:
I think the first is boring, but really important and that's repetition. When I was an athlete, the only way I could get better at kicking and shooting the soccer ball was by taking a ball to the park and kicking and shooting at hundreds of times. That really set me up for success in my future because it taught me that there's no shortcut. There are no six key tactics and tricks, although there are little things you can change, right? If I had a coach come with me to that park and tell me, "Sam, make sure you tilt your ankle on this angle or make sure you kick the ball with your laces, not the in step of your foot for that type of a shot."
That's where the coaching comes into play, but first and foremost, to expect you're going to get better at presenting without putting yourself through the uncomfortable situations of presenting hundreds of times is a lie. So I would say, step one, repetition, take every opportunity you can to speak publicly and you'll find yourself becoming a little more comfortable in those situations and you'll naturally develop your own style for presenting.
In terms of actual ideas to improve your communication, I think step number one is to practice pausing. Naturally our brain is uncomfortable with silence because when you're talking to another human being and they go completely silent, typically we think something's wrong. So silence becomes very nerve wracking and uncomfortable, which is why we often fill it with um, uh, oh, uh and all the other noises. And I still do it and catch myself doing it, but the practice of pausing is so effective and powerful and that alone will take you from a five to a seven or an eight when it comes to your presentations.
Secondly, know who you're speaking to. The reason you are presenting no matter where you're doing a presentation is because you have information that's valuable for the audience. Sure you might feel like a rock star standing on a stage, but the reason you're up there is to help the people in the audience. So always get very clear on who it is you're speaking to and what is in it for them. I would approach every situation and presentation from that perspective. Find somebody to provide you with feedback. It is one thing to give yourself personal feedback after a presentation, but asking one of your colleagues or coworkers to take notes while you're delivering a presentation so that every time you do a future one, you can improve. A simple way I do this is by having three columns on a sheet of paper. The first says, "Went really well." The second column says, "Went okay." And the third column says, "Went absolutely horrible."
I would ask somebody, as I'm speaking, to jot down notes about the things I'm presenting or sharing or saying in any of those three columns with timestamps and hand me that sheet of paper after my presentation. The things that went really well, that are in that column, I would consider including them in future presentations as well. The things that went okay in the middle column, I would think about how I could improve them or turn them from good to great. And the things that went horribly, I would spend some time really thinking about why it went not as well, and maybe some of those things should be removed or drastically changed. So I think from a very basic standpoint, simply practicing through repetition is probably your best bet at the start. Incorporating pauses, as opposed to filler words and having that awareness before you present, and then finally having a coworker or colleague take feedback on you when you present so you can use it and iterate for future presentations.
Ledia Dobi:
Right. And I just want to ask you to speak a little bit more on feedback. I think feedback is a really important part of our personal and professional development, and I think a lot of young individuals don't have as much practice with hearing feedback and then incorporating it and actually acting upon it. So I wanted to ask if you could speak a little bit more on how to really internalize and incorporate that feedback and what that means for long term success.
Sam Demma:
Whenever I give someone feedback, I first of all always start it with, "Take this with a grain of salt," because I don't want someone to believe that I'm the savior and have all the answers. Like that is so far from the truth. There will be feedback that people give you and you will have to make the decision, is this something that's actually valuable? Does this person have my best interest at heart? Is the thing they're saying a valid idea that could actually help me improve? And if the answer is yes to those questions, I strongly encourage you to listen and take notes and consider implementing those things. If it seems like someone's giving you feedback and they don't have your best interests at heart, I would take it with a grain of salt, but still be very respectful. But when it comes to giving feedback, I think it's really important that you start with positive things.
Don't raise your hand and say, "Oh, here's my feedback. You were absolutely terrible. This part at four minutes was so bad, I was going to fall asleep and the part you said it... Two minutes was also just jumbled and didn't make any sense. Oh, but by the way, your presentation overall was great. Keep it up." That's traumatizing.
Ledia Dobi:
I don't want to hear that.
Sam Demma:
No. So if you want somebody to actually act on your feedback, you should start with positive things. Show them that you really appreciated their efforts. Explain and prove to them that you were listening by sharing the positive aspects of their presentation before you jump into some of the feedback. Again, before you jump into the feedback, look, take this with a grain of salt, but here's what came to mind for me that I think could really help you in the future. If you think it could also be helpful, great. And if not, that's okay too, but here's what I have for you.
Then share some of your more critical bullet points, as opposed to just jumping in with some of the very negative comments at first. Back to that book, How to Win Friends and Influence People, there is a section or an analogy. It's a lot easier to get somebody to take their coat off by the sun coming out and making it really hot outside than it is to speed up the wind by a thousand miles an hour and try and blow it off their body. The analogy is kindness, empathy, caring for other people is a much quicker way to move them to action than aggression.
Vernon Williams:
And I got to tell our audience, Sam is practicing what he preaches because you all listening to this, it probably sounds perfect, no mistakes, but we had a few outtakes and he was very encouraging, patient, understanding and so forth, so he's legitimately saying what he believes in.
Sam Demma:
I appreciate it. And congratulations for human. We all make mistakes.
Vernon Williams:
So part of what you do is to help people identify and pursue what you call a rewarding career, and I've got my air quotes going here. How would you define a rewarding career? And what are some of those key elements? What are some of the core set of values or what's unique to each particular person? I say that from a standpoint, and we've got these emerging professionals, we've got students who are about to launch their careers and I think we all want to go into our dream job sort of starting off, but that may or may not be possible. You talked about a little bit about that earlier, so help us understand what you think are rewarding careers for those individuals.
Sam Demma:
I wholeheartedly believe it's a unique definition. Tying back to that idea of success being very personal, when I talk about careers, I think in society, we throw around the terms chasing your dreams and creating a meaningful life. When I look at those topics, meaningful and rewarding being kind of the same, when I look at those topics, I'll define them both. For me, your dreams are really goals you have. Your dreams are the goals you have with deadlines. They're things that you really want to accomplish and do. A rewarding and meaningful career, in my perspective, would mean at the end of your life, when you're lying on your deathbed, you look back and reflect on all the things you did and the impact you created with a smile on your face. Knowing that you're proud of the legacy that you've created on this planet and you're very fulfilled with the work you chose to do.
So on the opposite, an unrewarding career would be some job that pays the bills. Even six figure worth of payment, but at the end of your life the only thing you have to look back on is the fact that you made money. I think that's like a really good way to look at it. When I think about living a meaningful life and having a rewarding profession, I think about when I'm in my deathbed, will I look back and think to myself, "this work was very important"? I think that's what's so unique about it. It's so vague that it's really open to interpretation by the person pursuing the path. The challenging part is that you know deep down in your heart, whether or not what you're doing is meaningful to you, because again, everyone else will have a different definition and will try to give you theirs. But when you're about to pass away, the only person's definition that's going to matter is your own.
So yeah, I would say a meaningful and rewarding career is one where you look back with a smile, knowing that the work you did fulfilled you personally. And there's no universal definition, it's up to you. In terms of a core set of values, I personally believe, and I'm saying I very strongly, because my definition of meaningful could be very different than someone else's, but I really believe that contribution is a key value of a meaningful life. It's a simple test. I mean, go and do something that helps somebody else and come back and try and tell me that you don't feel good about it. It's almost impossible. So I very strongly linked a meaningful career with making a positive contribution. I think that's one key. I'm not going to suggest that that's the end all be all because someone else's definition might have nothing to do with contribution, but could be very meaningful for them. So all in all, I would say it's very personal, but for me, contribution is probably one of the big key values.
Vernon Williams:
I know we've got a couple of questions left, but you're really touching on, I think, some things that are foundational to me as well as an individual. Obviously I work for a company, but the company I choose to work for, I think has some of those similar values. I don't know that I thought about it in the same way until sort of these last two years when COVID hit and all of a sudden the work that you're doing stands still. The money that's in your bank account overnight, 30% of that gone, and you're just like, "Oh my gosh, what have I been doing? Have I been helping people? Have I been contributing to the larger society?" I think I know I've reflected on that a lot over the last couple years, and I have to imagine lots of other folks are as well, given some of our career changers and how folks are looking at different professions and how they want to spend their time and where they want to spend their time. So I wholeheartedly am on board with what you're saying.
Sam Demma:
Yeah, I've reflected too. I think it's forced all of us to, which is one of the beautiful things about the situation, although it sucks
Ledia Dobi:
Speaking about COVID, I mean, there's a lot happening in the world right now. Not just the pandemic, but also inflation, global unrest with countries being invaded. A lot of people are definitely feeling uninspired these days, feeling a little hopeless and lost possibly. So how do you inspire hope in others during such difficult times? Or how do you propose that they find hope for themselves or within themselves?
Sam Demma:
There was a movie that came out on Disney+ maybe a few months ago. It's about a character named Joe who wants to be a professional musician.
Ledia Dobi:
Oh, Soul, yes.
Sam Demma:
Soul.
Ledia Dobi:
That's so good.
Vernon Williams:
Yes, very good.
Sam Demma:
You're going to connect the dots in a second to why I'm sharing this. That movie brought me to tears multiple times and it's giving me goosebumps just thinking about it right now. When I'm feeling uninspired, I watch movies like Soul. I listen to podcasts of people that I look up to, my role models. I'll play rap music that inspire self-belief and confidence. The reason I bring up these examples on how I inspire myself, it's because I believe it's the same way that I can inspire others. The essence of all of those things, art, whether it's music, movies, podcasts, the essence of all of it is stories. People take the time to share a piece of theirselves through a medium. Soul is a beautiful story that makes us see pieces of ourselves in the characters in the movie that ends up inspiring something new in us.
So the way I believe we inspire hope in other people is by sharing who we are, is by sharing a piece of our story. So the way I do it is by sharing what I've went through, what I've been through, the challenges I've tried to overcome, the people who've inspired me in the hope that somebody sitting in an audience might look at me and go, "You know what? I'm not that different than Sam. Sure, maybe his challenge was related to soccer, but I'm going through something right now as well. My story is obviously not going to be as well produced with million dollar budgets like the movie Soul, but the simple idea of sharing a story, I believe can inspire so much in another human being.
It's one of the reasons why almost all of my memories with my grandparents relate to stories that they told us over the dinner table after eating a meal together, about their donkey in Greece, or gambling in the garage when he was just a little kid, or getting his horse stolen and then someone painted the face of the horse and tried to sell it back to him at a market. It sounds funny, but those are the things I remember and I think human beings remember stories, which is why almost every major religious text is told through parables. We see ourselves in stories, which is why I think story is probably the best way to inspire others. So I try and inspire hope in others through sharing my own stories, hoping that they might be able to see themselves in it.
Ledia Dobi:
Yeah, I really resonate with what you said. Similarly to you, I come from a family of immigrants as well. Were from Albania and the stories that they shared growing up have also inspired me, not only to work harder to provide for my family, but also just to make a life for myself because you know, if they could do it and come all this way and endure what they've endured, I can too in this country of opportunity.
Vernon Williams:
Yep.
Sam Demma:
Amen.
Vernon Williams:
So Sam, we're going to get you out of here on this last question and sort of bring things full circle. There's a quote on your website that essentially says "students will leave a session with you wanting to make the world a better place." At SHRM, we can certainly relate to that messaging because our tagline is "better workplaces for a better world." Give us a sense of what everyday average students and people should be thinking about in order to make the world a better place.
Sam Demma:
Do you both remember how you felt at the start of COVID 19?
Ledia Dobi:
Unfortunately, yes.
Vernon Williams:
Yes, sadly I do.
Sam Demma:
Feelings of anxiety, frustration, overwhelm, worry, depression. I had 30 presentations canceled in the span of just a few weeks. Remember, this is right after telling my parents that I was going to figure this out.
Vernon Williams:
Bad times.
Sam Demma:
Yeah, terrible timing. But it wasn't just me. I started calling all of my close friends to check in on them, to make sure they were mentally okay and dealing with the situation the best they could. I called one of my good friends, Andrew, who is a filmer. He has a videography company, a production agency, has a couple employees been making commercials and videos for companies for over a decade. He does amazing work. I called him at 2:00 PM in the afternoon and he told me he was still lying in bed. You know, one of those days where you want to pull the sheets over your face and do absolutely nothing.
I could tell on the tone of his voice that he was really struggling. He told me that he might have to close down his office and lay off some employees. He wasn't sure what he was going to do for work over the next couple of months or however long this was going to last. After the phone call ended, I just asked myself a simple question, "How can I use my energy and time to make my good friend Andrew feel a little bit better? How can I make my friend Andrew feel seen, heard, and appreciated?" An idea popped in my mind because I asked myself the question. The idea was maybe him and his wife aren't looking forward to making dinner that night. Perhaps you can get them dinner and surprise them with something so they don't have to cook. So I went on their Facebook to try and figure out what they liked eating, and I had to scroll all the way back to October of 2019 until I saw this post that said, "My vote for dinner tonight is tacos." By the way, I hope you both love tacos because it's one of my favorite.
Vernon Williams:
Taco Tuesday. Every Tuesday at my house, every Tuesday.
Sam Demma:
Let's go. So I was like, "Perfect, they love eating tacos. I'm going to get them tacos for dinner." So I went on, Uber Eats like skipped the dishes. I found this taco dinner for two and it was like $20. I left a note for the delivery person on Uber saying, "Hey, tell Andrew and Emily, this is from Sam and he hopes you feel a little bit better." You know, when you order something online, you can like watch the car drive down all the streets before it arrives. I sat at my front door staring at the phone, just watching the car drive for like 20 minutes.
At 6:29 that evening, I get a notification saying food was delivered. At 6:30, I get a FaceTime call from Andrew and his wife, Emily. They're sitting on stools in their kitchen. The box of tacos is open behind them on the kitchen counter, and they both have tears running down their faces. "Sam, you don't understand how much of a difference and impact it's had on our mental health right now. Thank you so much for making us feel seen and heard and appreciated. We are never going to forget this moment." Now, at least once a month, I get 500 taco emojis sent to my phone from Andrew and Emily.
They went out their way to hire a graphic designer to make this cute taco logo, it says, "Be someone's taco." The idea is to proactively look every day for an opportunity to make somebody else feel special. It's not about buying them food or giving them tacos, it's about asking yourself, how can you use your time and energy to make a positive difference in the life of someone around you? You asked me a great question you know, how do we leave the world a better place? How do students actually practically do this? What should they be thinking about? I would say think about how you can be someone's taco every single day. Think about how you can use a time and energy to make somebody else feel special, seen, heard, and appreciated. I think if you do that every single day, you make a really meaningful contribution and live a very fulfilled life.
Vernon Williams:
Sam, this has been an absolutely wonderful conversation. If folks want to learn more about you or want to book you for events, where can they get more information?
Sam Demma:
Well, first and foremost, it would mean the world to me if someone considered picking up a Be Someone's Taco t-shirt. People could go to shop.samdemma.com to grab one of those. If you were just looking to have a conversation or book a presentation, you could just go to Samdemma.com. There's also a link to the store up there and my email is posted up there, as well as a contact form you could fill out for more information. I would welcome conversation from anyone and would love to connect.
Vernon Williams:
Thank you so much, Sam, for your taking the time to share how we can all maximize our time and our relationship with coworkers at all levels, and just become better people as a whole.
Sam Demma:
Thank you both for having me. This has been an honor and a pleasure and I can't wait to hear it back and stay in touch and updated on all the amazing things you're both doing.
Ledia Dobi:
Yes, thank you so much. This has been a valuable conversation. With that, we're going to bring this episode of Career Compass to a close. We'd like to thank SHRM and SHRM Foundation for providing us with this platform. But more importantly, we'd like to thank you all for joining us and hope you stay with us throughout the season as we discuss more topics like this episode.
Vernon Williams:
For more exclusive content, resources and tools to help you succeed in your career, consider joining SHRM as a student member. You can visit us at shrm.org/students to learn more about being a part of a community of over 300,000 HR business leaders who impact the lives of over 115 million employees worldwide.
Ledia Dobi:
If you liked what you heard, we'd love your subscription. You can find us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, Google Play, or wherever you listen to podcasts. And do you have a topic you think we should cover or a guest we should hear from? We'd love to hear it. Email us at careercompasspodcast@shrm.org.
Vernon Williams:
Lastly, if you're looking for more work and career related podcast, check out All Things Work and Honest HR at shrm.org/podcast. Thank you again for listening and we'll catch you on the next episode of Career Compass.